Ezekiel 23 (NIV)
Two Adulterous Sisters
1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 “Son of man, there were two women, daughters of the same mother. 3 They became prostitutes in Egypt, engaging in prostitution from their youth. In that land their breasts were fondled and their virgin bosoms caressed. 4 The older was named Oholah, and her sister was Oholibah. They were mine and gave birth to sons and daughters. Oholah is Samaria, and Oholibah is Jerusalem. 5 “Oholah engaged in prostitution while she was still mine; and she lusted after her lovers, the Assyrians—warriors 6 clothed in blue, governors and commanders, all of them handsome young men, and mounted horsemen. 7 She gave herself as a prostitute to all the elite of the Assyrians and defiled herself with all the idols of everyone she lusted after. 8 She did not give up the prostitution she began in Egypt, when during her youth men slept with her, caressed her virgin bosom and poured out their lust on her.9 “Therefore I delivered her into the hands of her lovers, the Assyrians, for whom she lusted. 10 They stripped her naked, took away her sons and daughters and killed her with the sword. She became a byword among women, and punishment was inflicted on her.
11 “Her sister Oholibah saw this, yet in her lust and prostitution she was more depraved than her sister. 12 She too lusted after the Assyrians—governors and commanders, warriors in full dress, mounted horsemen, all handsome young men. 13 I saw that she too defiled herself; both of them went the same way.
14 “But she carried her prostitution still further. She saw men portrayed on a wall, figures of Chaldeans portrayed in red, 15 with belts around their waists and flowing turbans on their heads; all of them looked like Babylonian chariot officers, natives of Chaldea. 16 As soon as she saw them, she lusted after them and sent messengers to them in Chaldea. 17 Then the Babylonians came to her, to the bed of love, and in their lust they defiled her. After she had been defiled by them, she turned away from them in disgust. 18 When she carried on her prostitution openly and exposed her naked body, I turned away from her in disgust, just as I had turned away from her sister. 19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.
22 “Therefore, Oholibah, this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will stir up your lovers against you, those you turned away from in disgust, and I will bring them against you from every side— 23 the Babylonians and all the Chaldeans, the men of Pekod and Shoa and Koa, and all the Assyrians with them, handsome young men, all of them governors and commanders, chariot officers and men of high rank, all mounted on horses. 24 They will come against you with weapons, chariots and wagons and with a throng of people; they will take up positions against you on every side with large and small shields and with helmets. I will turn you over to them for punishment, and they will punish you according to their standards. 25 I will direct my jealous anger against you, and they will deal with you in fury. They will cut off your noses and your ears, and those of you who are left will fall by the sword. They will take away your sons and daughters, and those of you who are left will be consumed by fire. 26 They will also strip you of your clothes and take your fine jewelry. 27 So I will put a stop to the lewdness and prostitution you began in Egypt. You will not look on these things with longing or remember Egypt anymore.
28 “For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am about to deliver you into the hands of those you hate, to those you turned away from in disgust. 29 They will deal with you in hatred and take away everything you have worked for. They will leave you stark naked, and the shame of your prostitution will be exposed. Your lewdness and promiscuity 30 have brought this on you, because you lusted after the nations and defiled yourself with their idols. 31 You have gone the way of your sister; so I will put her cup into your hand.
32 “This is what the Sovereign LORD says:
“You will drink your sister’s cup,
a cup large and deep;
it will bring scorn and derision,
for it holds so much.
33 You will be filled with drunkenness and sorrow,
the cup of ruin and desolation,
the cup of your sister Samaria.
34 You will drink it and drain it dry
and chew on its pieces—
and you will tear your breasts.I have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD.
35 “Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: Since you have forgotten me and turned your back on me, you must bear the consequences of your lewdness and prostitution.”
36 The LORD said to me: “Son of man, will you judge Oholah and Oholibah? Then confront them with their detestable practices, 37 for they have committed adultery and blood is on their hands. They committed adultery with their idols; they even sacrificed their children, whom they bore to me, as food for them. 38 They have also done this to me: At that same time they defiled my sanctuary and desecrated my Sabbaths. 39 On the very day they sacrificed their children to their idols, they entered my sanctuary and desecrated it. That is what they did in my house.
40 “They even sent messengers for men who came from far away, and when they arrived you bathed yourself for them, applied eye makeup and put on your jewelry. 41 You sat on an elegant couch, with a table spread before it on which you had placed the incense and olive oil that belonged to me.
42 “The noise of a carefree crowd was around her; drunkards were brought from the desert along with men from the rabble, and they put bracelets on the wrists of the woman and her sister and beautiful crowns on their heads. 43 Then I said about the one worn out by adultery, ‘Now let them use her as a prostitute, for that is all she is.’ 44 And they slept with her. As men sleep with a prostitute, so they slept with those lewd women, Oholah and Oholibah. 45 But righteous judges will sentence them to the punishment of women who commit adultery and shed blood, because they are adulterous and blood is on their hands.
46 “This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Bring a mob against them and give them over to terror and plunder. 47 The mob will stone them and cut them down with their swords; they will kill their sons and daughters and burn down their houses.
48 “So I will put an end to lewdness in the land, that all women may take warning and not imitate you. 49 You will suffer the penalty for your lewdness and bear the consequences of your sins of idolatry. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign LORD.”
Skepticon, work, family, and numerous other duties have kept me too busy to post, especially on what I promised last time, polytheism in the bible. That post will have to wait until I have more time, since that will be a difficult post.
Until then, more silliness and vulgarity, courtesy of the bible. This passage discusses two sisters, one representing Samaria and the other representing Jerusalem. The sister representing Jerusalem lusts after men “whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.” This line could have come from pornographic literature (so I am told)!
I included the whole passage for context. Apologists note that the women are described as evil and then are destroyed for being evil. While this is true, the vulgarity of this passage is striking. No wonder why this passage was never read in my presence on Sunday.
This scripture passage is another beautiful example demonstrating the connection between sex, religion and power. Most Christians will of course insist the text is not literal, but rather some sort of allegory. However if except the text as including a speech from gods lips the v38 must of course be talking about children born to his sacred prostitutes. Each sister represents the sisterhood of women who perform sex acts on men who come to pay their homage to the gods. The connection of sex and religion Is constantly repeated in the bible by many different authors. Even ancient Hebrew shows this relationship with the word for holy and one of the two words for prostitute having the same basic three consonant form -qadesh.
The bible is of course the ranting of the priests trying to keep their temples as the exclusive form of worship because of the weLth they generate. Just like today they required payment for all the rites they performed. They demanded the best meat and grains andxfruit for sacrifice of which they collected a healthy portion. The problem is of course the other local temples were running rhe same scam and the Judaic preiats didn’t appreciate the competition.
When one accepts this angle it is easy to understand that Ezekiel is angry that locals are not only visiting his holy whores but visiting those of his adversary pump/priest.
Back on sex, let’s not forget about circumcision. The constant concern of this supposedly silly ritual only strengthens the sexual connection to religion. Let’s investigate how many other women are labelled in the bible. Rahab who helped destroy Jericho was not labelled a harlot as an insult but rather it is a tittle of pride illustrating how someone of importance has acknowledged and changed sides. Her Job is never condemned in the text but rather it signifies her importance and wisdom and examPle. Another woman of note is queen Jezebel who is of course condemned not because of what she does but because of whim her allegiances lie with.
By: mP on November 30, 2011
at 1:15 am
Makes as much sense as killing women who have been raped,but not the rapist. JT
By: John Thornberry on December 2, 2011
at 6:57 am
Of course the logic is cruel but its the best way of understanding the mindset of the ancients…Many peoples in those days were monsters in their inter-personal relationships, that was how life is. Unfortunately the idiots who continue to listen to these sorts of religions still exist in those parts of the world.
By: mP on December 8, 2011
at 4:35 am
The actual message here is almost as bad as the metaphor: It’s coming from the point of view that God was angry at Samaria and Jerusalem for wanting to get along with, trade with, and respect their neighboring countries. But since their neighbors were of different religions that was protrayed by the Bible writer as evil because then they might not recognise Jehovah exclusively. It’s a picture of political and religous intolerance, and one more example of how the bilblical model is just not fit for the modern world.
By: Mikel on November 30, 2011
at 1:30 am
The literal interpretation of the Bible is a relatively new phenomenon and though it has spread like fire in North America the vast majority of Christians (2 billion people) do not see it that way. In other countries, like mine, the Bible is seen more like the result of God inspiring people and people responding as they are, fallible and limited beings, sometimes eager to love God and improve.
The accounts of God’s motives in the Bible are highly influenced by the limited knowledge and language of the human author. And human knowledge and language will always be a disproportionate tool to speak of God. Human language will always be childish and inappropriate to describe God, but that’s the best we have. Do not mistake the wrapping of the gift with the gift.
Revelation occurs in at least two steps. In step one we find “an eye for an eye” (the command to limit the extent of the retribution); in the second step we find “love your enemies” and wish them well.
Why is it so difficult to understand that humans learning take place in stages? What is important? Children’s mistakes or the progress they make (through mistakes). George Washington had slaves, but that does not make him a bad man; he actually went ahead of his contemporaries and freed a country. What matters is to build on what others did and not criticizing all they did poorly, using the knowledge that our vantage point of view in time give us. We are building on the shoulders of giants, Washington, Jacobs, Moses, Peter and Paul, all included.
Human progress is like a relay race; but the length of the rugs is not fixed. Therefore to measure the progress of any of the “runners” we need to find out not onlythe point where they passed the token but also where they received it.
The Bible offers us an account of the slow and painful moral progress of the human race; which is a staged process. Our task is NOT to improve on the first step, that would be too easy; but to improve standing on the second step.
We struggle to want the other person good, especially if he or she is our enemy. But that’s the “second step” challenge.
By: Juan on December 18, 2011
at 11:50 pm
We can not make the progress you desire while believing that books written by bronze age men are the literal word of a perfect god. Normally I require that people discuss the verses mentioned. You have provided a traditional “liberal” interpretation of the bible. Some parts are perhaps literal, some parts are perhaps inspired, some parts are perhaps metaphor, and other parts are perhaps completely man made and error filled. With this time of framework, how can you determine what parts are literal, inspired, metaphor, or man made? And what evidence do you have that the bible is the result of God inspiring people?
By: edhensley on December 19, 2011
at 12:45 am
Biblical literalism came about with the rise of Protestantism; so traditional Christianity (Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic) can be more “liberal”, so to speak. There are gray areas and discrepancies among Christians but if you read Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis you will find that most Christians agree on the basics. I am a Catholic and like most Catholics (and many other Christians) who have read C.S. Lewis have him in high regard. Even if you don’t profess the Creed of Nicaea, like most Christians do, there is ample agreement on the fundamentals. I enjoy listening to good Evangelical preachers and I know that many of them watch EWTN with interest, although some probably won’t admit to this “fault”. So here we are, all of us; believing that God loved the world into being and that religion is essentially about being grateful to God. Christianity is about gratefulness and love. We are all in “hospital” for treatment; sometimes we follow the instructions of the “doctor” and many times we don’t. And we all are “patients” and “paramedics” at the same time.
God tells us not to quarrel with each other but we do. That’s just human nature, we set up a friendship society and two weeks later we have two friendship societies that don’t talk to each other. But when we are humble we accept that a good atheist is a better person than a bad theist; that a good Muslim is a better person than a bad Christian; that a good Lutheran is better person than a bad Catholic, and so on. Human beings have traces of God but are not God. We reflect the light that comes from God but only partially. But some light is better than no light.
The Old Testament announces the New One. The New Testament, the word of Jesus is God’s word in human language and contains the essential knowledge for our salvation. Our understanding of God can be compared to our pet dog’s understanding of your thoughts. There is much more in God that what we can understand but if you have spent some time with a Golden Retriever you know that he “knows” you, at his own level of “understanding”.
Why do I believe in the Bible? I probably would not believe if the Old Testament was all there was. I believe that Moses existed because I believe in Jesus. I believe in Jesus’ words probably for the same reasons that convinced the apostles, who in amazement once declared: “he has done everything right”. If you read the Bible with attention you’ll probably reach the same conclusion. This man who says he is God is actually God. But if you are an atheist probably the Bible is not the book to start. If you believe in secondary (intermediate) causes but you don’t even admit the possibility of a First Cause then your discrepancies with any Christian are “upstream”, so to speak.
By the way, English is my second language. I hope that does not obscure my arguments.
By: Juan on December 19, 2011
at 1:53 pm
Juan,
My wife was Catholic. I know the difference between the Catholic church following the authority of the church leaders and the protestants following the authority of scripture only. I have also read lots of C.S. Lewis and other apologist. I often use Catholic apologies to attack protestants.
I grew up a fundamentalist protestant Christian. So I started from a standpoint that the bible was true. After reading the bible from cover to cover twice, I realized it was nonsense. So your comments in the last paragraph (“If you read the Bible with attention you’ll probably reach the same conclusion”) are not correct.
You make many assertions (“This man who says he is God is actually God”). You provide no evidence for any of your assertions. Cult members make the same statements about their cult leaders.
I want more than someone telling me they believe the bible to be “inspired by God” (whatever that means) because they like some of what is says and because they were told it was inspired by their parents and church leaders. I want people to provide evidence the bible is “inspired by God”.
By: edhensley on December 19, 2011
at 4:52 pm
I don’t think you are aware of the metaphors used in the bible for God and his people (the Jews, and later, gentiles who accept Jesus). God repeatedly says he is the “husband” and his people are his “bride.” His love for his people is like the passionate love of a husband and wife, and they are bound by the Covenant he “cut.” Idol worship is repeatedly called “adultery.” In verse 7 it says she “defiled herself with all the idols of everyone she lusted after.”
I don’t know what you find so objectionable about the bolded text. The “genitals etc..” part sounds like a whore crassly boasting about a man’s sexual prowess. Verse 19 says, “she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt.” This was one of the worst things a Jew could do because they were boasting about how good it was to be a slave in Egypt, worshipping idols, false gods, and the pharaoh.
All this said, you commented that you wanted someone to provide evidence the bible is inspired by God. What would you consider evidence the bible is inspired by God?
By: Heather on March 18, 2013
at 7:57 pm
Your interpretation is different from that of many Christian and Jewish scholars. Please show me where it says the verses are metaphors?
Regarding your last question, I must first ask which bible? The protestant bible that was not completed until 1885, the Catholic bible, the Ethiopian bible, etc?
First you must show why the bible you chose is the word of god and the others are not. After that, you must next explain how fruit bearing trees were created before the sun as described in Genesis. When you have done that, I will have more challenges for you.
By: edhensley on March 19, 2013
at 12:17 am
Ed wrote: “After that, you must next explain how fruit bearing trees were created before the sun as described in Genesis.”
I am looking forward to an expression of appreciation from Ed for clearing this question up.
The verse you refer to regarding grass, herbs and trees is in Genesis 1:11.
Let’s consider Genesis 1:3-5
[3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. [4] And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness. [5] And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. – Gen 1:3-5 KJV
So, God provided “light” (and the measurement “days”) to the workspace of “creation” before any of this occurred, including the “fourth ‘day’” designation of the sun and moon that would govern the terrestrial 24 hour cycle. (This is where you might consider the evidentiary possibility that the textual “days” and “nights” of Genesis 1 might not refer to 24 hour periods.)
Light can come from different sources. Although in a heated house, I am sitting next to a mica space heater, that is giving off infra-red “light”. which warms me. People all over the country grow lots of plants inside using grow-lights (many then sell the results). Bottom line, light energy that allows plants to grow need not come from the sun. God provided light separate from the sun, to provide for a successful creative process before the sun was designated and provided to give light to the earth.
When we remodeled our bedroom, the process included replacing the electric wiring. During that process, and before the electric and drywall was completed, there was no light available in the room from installed lighting. This we brought in work-lights with extension cords, to provide light for the building process.
If God indeed created all things, it is not hard to realize that he would have the ability to provide electromagnetic energy for the workplace of creation before the sun and other earth-centric designated light sources were established. The text of Genesis provides the answer to this question, but it takes a person looking for the answer to see it. (See: “humility”)
By: Greg M on March 19, 2013
at 4:01 pm
No credible scientist believes that the sun was created after the earth, much less that there were fruit bearing trees prior to the sun. The utlimate source of the electric energy sources you cite (space heater, grow lights) is the sun. There may have been multiple transformations along the way, but the sun is still the ultimate source of that energy. And not only that, the grow lights are an extension of the light bulb, which was invented by Thomas Edison, who was an outspoken atheist (http://atheists.org/content/thomas-alva-edison-1910-nyt-interview). So your argument to prove that fruit bearing trees existed prior to the sun is dependent upon the invention of an atheist!
You have at times claimed that Genesis is literal, then at times claimed that it is not (“This is where you might consider the evidentiary possibility that the textual “days” and “nights” of Genesis 1 might not refer to 24 hour periods.”). There are many, including many Christians, who claim that all of Genesis 1 might just be a metaphor. Ken Ham of the nearby Creation Museum teaches that creation took place in six 24-hour days about 6,000 years ago (http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v5/n2/six-literal-days), and he has been very critical of people who claim to be Christian and do not follow his interpretation.
But seriously, you have made an incredible claim that most Christians and many Christian readers of this blog do not accept. I will treat your statement as a scientific claim. You have claimed that there is an energy source in the cosmos that can support fruit bearing trees on a planet that is not near any sun. Do you have any evidence of this energy source? If this energy source exists or once existed, how might scientists detect it? Please help scientists find this energy source.
Thanks!
Ed
By: edhensley on March 19, 2013
at 7:20 pm
And the invention(s) of Edison (those that he actually invented himself, and didn’t steal, that is) was and is dependent on the things created by God to work.
I made no “claim”. I just referred to the source material data for consideration.
…
I answered your question as to how things could have worked if you took the order thing literally. But you gave it no heed. Is that honest?
By: Greg M on March 19, 2013
at 9:45 pm
Your reply was 5,527 words long. If you want to write that much get your own blog. I only included your statements relevant to my question.
I DID give your answers heed. I asked you to provide scientific evidence. You have not provided any.
By: edhensley on March 20, 2013
at 2:24 am
Your comment that I was responding to was not about scientific evidence. Just because you want to claim I made a scientific claim, does not mean I did so.
Your comment was about the fact that plants could not live without light and that question’s relation to the order of the biblical text of genesis 1. I answered your question.
I should note that you have not provided any scientific evidence that proves that there was no energy source other than the sun that played a part in the earth’s “genesis”. However, I never claimed that science was the foundation for what I shared. In my (admittedly lengthy) response, I explained that I believe that such considerations are beyond science’s (current) ability to determine. If you lack conclusive scientific evidence too, then why demand it of me?
Sorry for cluttering up your blog. I was wanting to respond to you adequately, and had no other way to do so. I respect your point on length, and for that I apologize. But I will say there is more in my comments, regardless of your choice to post them or not, that responds to your questions.
You have my email, if you have any actual questions that you personally care to have responded to honestly, I will be happy to do so personally off-blog. The topic was, after all, about Ezekiel 23, and we have indeed strayed off course. Thanks for the interaction.
By: Greg M on March 20, 2013
at 2:53 am
You said, “Your comment was about the fact that plants could not live without light”. But I actually said to someone else, “you must next explain how fruit bearing trees were created before the sun as described in Genesis.”
We have no evidence of fruit bearing trees existing without a sun. This is an extraordinary claim. It require evidence. You can not provide any. All fruit bearing trees that have ever been observed use the sun’s energy to survive. Bible believers claim that fruit bearing trees can exist without a sun. Yet, as you have shown, there is no evidence of this claim.
You then complained that I an not providing evidence for a negative claim: ‘I should note that you have not provided any scientific evidence that proves that there was no energy source other than the sun that played a part in the earth’s “genesis”.’ I have never made that claim. I accept the evidence from science that there were many sources of energy that played a role in our earth’s genesis. Energy from supernovas provided atoms for our galaxy and solar system. Comets and other objects provided elements as well. There were many collisions that effected our planet. Scientists know these facts from many observations, experiments, and investigations. However, there are no scientific observations, experiments, or investigations that infer fruit bearing trees have ever existed without a sun.
By: edhensley on March 20, 2013
at 4:27 am