Posted by: edhensley | January 3, 2010

God and the Bible Forbid Christmas Trees


Jeremiah 10 NIV

1 Hear what the LORD says to you, O house of Israel. 2 This is what the LORD says:
“Do not learn the ways of the nations
or be terrified by signs in the sky,
though the nations are terrified by them.
3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest,
and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.
4 They adorn it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so it will not totter.

King James Version

 3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

Hebrew Masoretic Text
 
3 For the customs of the peoples are vanity; for it is but a tree which one cutteth out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman with the axe.
 
Septuagint
 
3 because the precepts of the nations are vain: there is a tree from the forest, cut down, a work of a craftsman, and a molten image.


5 Like a scarecrow in a melon patch,
their idols cannot speak;
they must be carried
because they cannot walk.
Do not fear them;
they can do no harm
nor can they do any good.”

This passage is often ignored by Christians at Christmas, because it appears to forbid cutting down a tree, bringing it into your home, and decorating it. There are some Christian groups today that forbid Christmas trees due to this passage.

Most Christians who are aware of this verse claim it is about idolatry and not about Christmas trees. This is an Old Testament passage, so obviously it could not be a Christmas tree. Also, they not that in many modern translations the word chisel is used, indicating that the tree was not really a tree but a carved idol. The NIV uses the word chisel. The KJV uses the word axe, as does the Hebrew Masoretic Text.  The Septuagint does not use axe or chisel, but calls the tree a “molten image” in verse 3. Once again, the different translations are a source of confusion.

Further verses show that the context of this passage is clearly about the worship of idols. However, verses 3 and 4 are still strong statements against cutting down trees and bringing them into a house to decorate, and these verses are a direct quote from God.  

Furthermore, God states clearly that he does not like the customs of other people (non Jews).  There are multiple non-Jewish origins of decorating trees that pre-date the Christmas tree. Ancient (and modern) pagans would cut boughs of evergreens for decoration in their homes. Ancient Egyptians decorated their homes with palm tree branches. Greeks decorated evergreen trees as part of worship of their god Adonia. Pagan Romans would decorate trees with metal and replicas of Bacchus, a fertility god. Germans tied fruit and candles to trees in honor of their god Woden.  Christians can not accurately claim that decorating a tree is not related to pagan idol worship.

The second-century Christian theologian Tertullian condemned those Christians who celebrated the winter festivals, or decorated their houses with laurel boughs in honor of the emperor:  “Let them over whom the fires of hell are imminent, affix to their posts, laurels doomed presently to burn: to them the testimonies of darkness and the omens of their penalties are suitable. You are a light of the world, and a tree ever green. If you have renounced temples, make not your own gate a temple.” Other Christian leaders condemned the “pagan” practice of christmas trees, including the Pilgrim’s second governor, William Bradford. The Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Worldwide Church of God (recent post at http://worldwidechurchgod.blogspot.com/2009/12/call-for-christmas-tree-sellers-to.html) and many fundamentalist Christian groups still forbid Christmas trees. Notice the Worldwide Church of God link mentions Jeremiah 10 as well.

Most Christians, however, continue to ignore this passage and any other passage in the bible that contradicts their opinions.

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Responses

  1. I think you really need to check your facts. The Worldwide Church of God KEEPS Christmas. The blog you got that info from is NOT a WCG related sited but is produced by a mentally disturbed individual that was kicked out of Israel for terrorist activities.

    Worldwide’s web site is here:
    http://www.wcg.org/

    • Here is exact text from the website you mention at http://www.wcg.org/lit/aboutus/history.htm:

      Armstrong taught that repentance involves a change in behavior, that Christianity involves a way of life. He focused primarily on prohibitions. Church members were not allowed to vote, serve in the military, marry after divorce, go to doctors, use cosmetics, or observe Christmas, Easter and birthdays.

      From 1934 to 1995, the WCG did not observe Christmas. However, much has changed in the Worldwide Church of God since Herbert Armstrong died. On April 3, 2009, it changed its name to Grace Communion International. More importantly, there are so many splinter groups from the WCG that I can not find one list that includes them all. Some are listed below:

      1. Church of God International (org. 1978)
      2. Philadelphia Church of God (org. 1989)
      3. Twentieth Century Church of God (org. 1990)
      4. Church of God (Philadelphia Era) (org. 1991)
      5. Church of the Great God (1992)
      6. Global Church of God (1992; now defunct)
      7. United Church of God (1995)
      8. Church of God Fellowship (1992)
      9. Living Church of God (1998)
      10. Restored Church of God (1998)

      The full chart of the organization splits can be found at: http://www.wcg.org/lit/aboutus/splits.htm. This chart, published by the WCG, states “Chart based on information available in 1997. We are not attempting to keep the chart up to date.”

      I hope you do not fault me to much for not keeping up with the doctrinal differences of these various cults.

    • Ed has made a particularly powerful point, he is not asking if you have christmas trees but rather why you ignore this simple law from the Bible. The Bible says no idols, no murder, no trees why ignore the last mentioned here ?

  2. Please read Matthew 24:15 in duplex with 2 Thes 2:2-3;the Abomination of the Desolation is the Apostasy that came into the Holy Place which spiritually, the CHURCH of God!

  3. My nieghbor is a believer, how ever she is totaly into the old ( True Names ) like Yahweh,& Yahshua, celebrates the Sabbath every friday from dusk till saturday dusk. ect. She has a lot of booklets and stuff by a company called ( Master Lock ) She does not believe or celebrate Christmas, Say some thing about a silent J, that Jesus real name is Yahshua, she says the name Lord is a Pegan name. ect. What is your opinion? I am just asking, that’s all thank-you for your time,,,, Allan

    • I believe the same way your neighbor believes. When “jesus” was born he was born Hebrew in the hebrew alphabet there was not a J, jesus is a greek translation so there for his name is Yahshua, also “god” is just a title as is “mom” but your “:mom” does have a name like “Sharon” and god’s name is Yahweh!

      • Who are you people? : ) I’ve come to believe in the same thing also, but in my new found understanding. I have found that I no longer have any one in which to share the Word of Yahweh with, most refuse to see (what I believe the Spirit of Yahweh has revealed to me). All I get is. I never saw that, heard that and so on, but the real sad part is no one I know takes the time to check it out. Sometimes I wonder if I’m even right in my beliefs.

    • @Allan, I looked for this “Master Lock” and I can’t find anything but locksmiths…you mind putting up a little more detail? Or could you email me? oppknocks10@mail.com…please?

      @Brian Byley….MY SENTIMENTS and problem EXACTLY!! I even had a meeting with my Pastor and his wife…asking WHY on earth do we do this and that if it is NOT scriptural?? He said, well that is all based on your conviction! WHAT!?? I was sooo heart broken… It goes SO much deeper than just those things! that were mentioned in this article…I am trying to figure out where I can go to worship now…like no one WANTs to know truth…and furthermore they are upset and hurling the term “legalistic” at me…sigh….if anyone can help, PLEASE DO!!!!

      Super sad, lonely, and disgusted at the world’s “Christians” today…

      • Harper, please know that you are not alone in this crazy mixed up world.. I also went to my pastor about the Sabbath Day wondering why and by whos authority the day was changed to sunday..it is the 4th commamndment..I believe God is calling His people out…you can reach me or anybody else for that matter who wants to talk about the things of God..irish6795@gmail.com

    • she is right.. PRAISE YHWH!!!! my name is Scott im samoan 28 years old does ur friend date?lol

  4. “verses 3 and 4 are still strong statements against cutting down trees and bringing them into a house to decorate, and these verses are a direct quote from God.”

    I am searching for where it says anything about putting trees into a house. What about building houses out of wood and then painting them and putting stuff like gutters, glass, and lights on them?

    • God certainly IS NOT against building a house, painting it and putting up gutters..and that line of thought is.rediculous.. Read Jeremiah Chap 10 verses 2-4. Here GOD is talking about customs..and HE tells us not to do or keep the customs of pagans. You can name it a Christmas tree or whatever..It is nowhere in the Bible commanded that we chould observe or do these things..in fact it is prohibited tp adopt these customs..man can not make anything holy..no matter what name we put to it..to be holy we must do what God tells us to do..Only HE can make us Holy..thru us by our obeying HIM.
      if you truly want to Honor God..keep HIS Holy Days..as Jesus Did and the Apostles did. You will fin these Holy Days in Leviticus 23.

  5. Very good Phil, not only should we argue the point that these customs come from pagan (non believers of Yahweh) beliefs and that Yahweh doesnt want his children taking on these vain customs that do not honor him. ( we should all remember why we are in this fallen state of sin, it was because we (adam and eve) did things that Yahweh forbid. Also very important, Yahweh is pretty particular about how he wants his people to think, behave and live and what do you know, there is nothing in the bible that says that we should have anything that resembles a christmas tree, but rather “warns” of us of being sucked in by these (pagan) origin customs. How does a pagan custom or facsimile of honor Yahweh? It simply doesnt and is considered “vain” by HIM and he doesnt want us obedient believers to practice them as the pagans did. How much more needs to be said, Yahweh repeatedly in is word WARNS us over and over about doings the ways of nonbelievers. Christmas DEC 25 is a pagan date used by many, many pagan dieties (false elohim) simultaneously. This date is a pagan hand me down, quinky dink hah, I dont think so, Yahwehs adversary doesnt love him so he doesnt quit, remember he is the g-d of chaos. Yahweh is the elohim of truth, And these customs are truly the spirit of err. Those who love HIM, Yahweh, will obey him, just as Yahushua did and said If you love me you will obey my commands, DO we not believe the his obedience should also be ours, Are we not commanded to be like him. To all that have ears or in this case eyes, Emulate the things of Yahweh not the things of false G-ds and vain customs. YAhweh is everlasting, Seek the everlasting. Not the dead things of this world
    HalleluYAHweh. | *J*/ Looking forward to the things of heaven

    • December 25 was clearly a pagan holiday long before it became a Christian holiday. Likewise, Yahweh was once a part of the Council of El and had a consort named Asherah.

    • Have you ever asked why Dec 25 was picked ? What possible connection is there between the Unconquored Sun and God of the Jesus and the Jews. The simple answer is none – they are the same.

      That is why all major Jewish and Christian holidays occur at major points in the life of the Sun throughout the year, passover – Spring equinox etc. Most christians deny the connection between astrology and the jewish religion. However if one looks objectively one can see many many connections.

      – 12 tribes, apostles etc = 12 months
      – major holidays = equixnoxs
      – heaven = where the stars live.
      – 7 days of the week = 7 visible heavenly bodies.
      – arrangement of the 12 tribes = matches their zodiac signs
      – the animal representations of each of the gospel (lion, eagle, man etc) = solid zodiac signs.
      – the christian fish symbol = pisces, Jesus was born when the age of aquarius begun. Jesus fished men, apostles were fisherman.
      – 3 wise men used astrology to find jesus – Why god would use something he banned to direct attention to his son ?
      – The Sun dies at the winter equinox for 3 days at the Southern cross.
      -

      • If you studied the appointed times ..feast you would know that DEC 25 was never picked by Hebrews or God…

        Most of your points were amalgamated by the Catholic Church …

      • And Easter is amalgamated by the Catholic Church from European pagan religions, etc. Christianity is one big amalgamation.

      • The Bible does not say anything about 3 wise men – wise men, yes but definately not 3. Youtube sites that are quite useful: The Fuel Project, Christmassisalie and for a more scientific approach Discover Ministries

  6. Is there a church or denomination other than Jehova’s Witnesses that prohibits incorporating Christmas trees, Santa, wreaths, etc into Christmas celebrations?

    • Yes, there are several. At one time the Worldwide Church of God prohibited Christmas trees, but it has changed it’s mind as it has split into many splinter groups (if you confuse the groups, they will get really mad at you!).

      http://www.thercg.org/questions/p001.a.html
      “The use of such a tree amounts to idolatry. This is a transgression of God’s law, stated in Exodus 20:4-6.”

    • The Church of God Seventh Day which is found on
      http://www.cog7day.org is also another church that does not practice christmas and what it stands for.

  7. What cannot be denied is the ancient AND CURRENT practice of worshiping trees/groves/etc. There is no doubt where the yule time tree came from: it came from pagan Europe (and broader). It DID NOT come from Jesus or God or the Bible. The decorated tree is a worldly, materialistic, man-made idol. Period. Christians who practice “the tree” ceremony are mimicking tree rituals found in pagan antiquity. Have fun!

  8. Lets not forget that the menorah is paying homage to Asherah. Now what is a pagan fertility symbol doing in Jewish life ?

  9. Is that any more pagan than decorating your home with wall paintings, vases, beautiful rugs (when the hard wood floor, tile, or current carpet is adequate in it’s functional purpose), coordinating curtins, stylish blinds, special nic nacs, how about smartphones/iphones when regular basic phone will do? We cut down forest trees all the time and carve them into log furniture, houses, barnes, decorative accents people use in their homes (cabinets, bowls, picture frames). Just a thought. By having todays home you are following the culture trend of Americas idea of a home

  10. The Jehovah Witnesses dont believe in hell either. I know they say they are christian but they are not. So the whole tree argument is out the door.

  11. [...] Bible specifically condemns the practice of cutting down trees and decorating them. (And it’s a “This is what the Lord [...]

  12. really? this is talking about idols…not CHRISTmas trees!!!! i think you should read it more thoroughly…

    • Several Christian denominations prohibit Christmas trees because of these verses, so your interpretation is not representative of all Christians. Decorating a tree is not unique to Christianity and preceded Christianity by centuries. http://www.history.com/topics/history-of-christmas-trees

  13. This is very true! I loved this article! Especially the part about the different Bible versions. How cool!

  14. Deuteronomy 16:21 “Thou shalt not plant thee an Asherah of any kind of tree beside the altar of Yahweh thy Elohim, which thou shalt make thee.”

  15. Christians are very disbedient and no way are solely obeying God. It is nothing confusing about that passage of scripture. Just as birthdays where does it say we are to celebrate them? I read where when one is born into the world to cry and when one die to rejoice. Does Christians do this no? You would think someone with the Holy Spirit in them would obey. This is why they are not respected.

    • My sentiments exactly, but how dose one deal with this issue with a spouse who does not have this understaning. I feel the need/desire to say not in my house, if you want observe it then do it out side.

  16. This is soon tru

  17. Sad some “Christians” think the old testament is of no concern u know the “Torah” the very one that Yeshua aka “Jesus” read and adhered to add he said “I did.mp4 come to change the laws” “not one jot shall be changed” sad people don’t read what Holy days the Lord they claim to love observed! Sad that it was pagans who cut the trees nailed so they didn’t topple and THE LORD STATES WE ARE TO HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE HIM SO PLEASE CHRISTIANS SHOW ME WHERE THERE WERE 3 WISEMEN NOPE “THE WISEMEN” ALSO THE MAGGAI DIDN’T GO TO THE MANGER NOR WAS CHRIST A BABY IT WAS A HOUSE READ PEOPLE. BUT MORE IMPORTANT PLEASE QUOTE SCRIPTURE TELLING US TO CELEBRATE THIS DAY?? DON’T FORGET YESHUA SAID WILL U FOLLOW MY WORD OUR THE TRADITIONS (PAGAN WAYS) OF YOUR FATHERS. HE ALSO SAID I’VE TOLD U HOW TO WORSHIP SO WHERE IS HIM TELLING US TO MAKE A DAY THAT WAS STARTED BY PAGANS DUE TO FACT OURS DARKEST DAY OF YEAR LIE TO OR KIDS SAY ITS HIS BIRTHDAY WHEN ITS CLEARLY NOT THEN COMMIT ALMOST EVERY SIN ON THAT DAY GREED, IDOLATRY, DEBT, GLUTTONY, LIES, ECT PLEASE SHOW ME THIS SCRIPTURE? FYI ITS MY 1ST NON CHRISTMAS HAVING YEAR I’M ASHAMED I TAUGHT MY CHILDREN THIS PAGAN LIE WORSHIP BULL :(

    • way to go my hubby and I have recently had our eyes open to the truth and how satan is deceiving most every one

      • I have shared by copy/paste, many of the posts in this thread and This one by Lacy is AWESOME!!! I was honored to share it!! My family and I have been honoring God for our entire lives as christians but as of 4 years ago, we realized that calling yourself a christian is NOTHING to be proud of. This is our 4th year of not celebrating the pagan “holiday” called christmas and we could never be happier!! Praise you Yeshua!!!

  18. I wonder how much it hurts God to see us getting consumed by the legalism of obscure points while we miss the opportunity to enjoy Him, love Him and serve Him?

    • Your question presupposes god is male. How do you know this?

      • Jesus calls God his father. And tells us to pray Our Father in heaven.

    • That’s what they were doing with the golden calf …the scripture is clear God was not happy being worshiped in pagan ways.

  19. Brian Byley — right on! People don’t want to have their beliefs challenged! They only want to see and hear what they feel comfortable with… in most cases this means man-made traditions!

  20. PS. I also had the same problem. Some years ago I asked my pastor why he teaches that people go straight to heaven/hell when they die when the bible clearly teaches that the dead know nothing and are ‘asleep’ in death until their resurrection at the day of judgement. If one is already in heaven or hell, then what is the point of judgement day? “Oh well” he says. “I’m not sure exactly where they are, but we know we can trust in the Lord”. What a disappointing response from some-one who ought to know better! I have also had the same problem when mentioning other discrepancies regarding what the bible says and what is taught in most churches. People just say “I’ve never seen/heard that” but make no effort to investigate further (like they don’t want to know as then they would be accountable for not changing their ways). When you show them the verse/s you are referring to they come up with some excuse or another, or (if they can’t think of any), resort to comparing you with one of the pharisees of Jesus’ time by calling you ‘legalistic’. “You should stop nit-picking and focus on the bigger picture” they say. “After-all, we should be focusing on loving God and our neighbour since that is God’s greatest commandment. That’s what the bible is really about… blah, blah, blah”. Well, in my opinion, if you love your God then you don’t want to be offending Him by disobeying his word. And if you love your neighbour you want to be teaching him the truth. Why else did God provide us with all these scriptures. He could have just provided us with two sentences and been done with it! I can’t see why people who appear to be so devoted to their ‘Lord and Saviour’ can be so flippant about something so important! They are refusing to take guidance and counsel from the word of their very own “beloved saviour”!

    • Hi Lisa..this post is obviously late..lol..but i just stumbled onto it when looking up scripture about easter and christmas..i completely agree with you about how people do not want to look into scripture more than they have to..God tells us to come out from among them…i pray that you get back on this site so we can talk some more about the true things of God!!!please e-mail me at irish6795@gmail.com

    • please read Luke vers 16:19-31 about haven and hall.

      • Sorry, I mean verse.

  21. While I fully understand that a Christmas tree is against the laws of Yahweh, are you keeping all the other laws, no pork, woman wearing dresses and keeping long hair, men having beards, etc.. After all does the bible not give these laws as well. If memory serves me well I think there are 538 laws/commandments in the bible.

    • I have not read if you were responding to me or someone else. I do not believe the bible to be the perfect word of god, so I do not keep all of the other laws.

      • Attention Wyatt: Following all of those ways/laws is something that we could never fully live up to as we will never be actual Jews. We can merely follow what we are commanded to follow by living by the ways of the Torah. We were not his chosen people, so we cannot live by those laws until we can understand them in their entirety, if even then. It is not ideal to change all of your ways, if your were a prior christian, until you have prayed about it, studied it, learned and Yahweh made the correct and right on time changes in your heart. Only then will we know that it is time to make those changes and begin living by them. As for now, since christmas is a paganistic man-made worldly holiday that most of us have been molded to know, love and celebrate, it is important that this truth come to our attention in the early stages of our new knowledge of the right ways to live by the laws of our Heavenly Father so that we may begin our new journey and start to understand what Yahweh really wants us to know. All of it is just SUCH a beautiful eye opening thing!!! PRAISE YESHUA!!!

    • Matthew 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

  22. I agree. There are other scriptures about the pagan worship under green trees. That the isralites turned to. This is why God punished them so often. What is called christmas today originated as tammuzes birthday ezekiel 8:12 -18. Warns us not to worship tammuz

  23. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asherah_pole

  24. Even though it would be very interesting if the Bible did indeed condemn the use of the custom that eventually evolve into the christmas tree (because it is entirely non christian in origin) notice how this translation renders Jeremiah 10:3-5…

    “3. For the customs of the peoples are a delusion. It is just a tree of the forest that is cut down, worked by the hands of the craftsman with his tool.

    4. They adorn it with silver and gold and fasten it with hammer and nails so that it will not fall over.

    5. Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field, they cannot speak; they have to be carried, for they cannot walk. Do not fear them, for they can do no harm, nor can they do any good.”

    It becomes evident that the tree and it’s adorning, though a reference to non-Jewish practices, is not necessarily being condemned in this particular passage. Rather, these descriptions are metaphoric, just like the scarecrow that is mentioned in the very next verse.

    • I discussed in my comments that the verses were talking about idolatry, but I also noted that many Christian sects still forbid Christmas trees to this day.

  25. It has always been GOD’s perspective to look into the heart and know the purpose, regardless of the activity. In the discussions above, we see a few verses regarding evergreen trees and how the darkness of the hearts were intended upon evil. There are many more verses in GOD’s Hebrew text about cypress, cedar and fir, that are all “evergreens.” And these verses talk to the evergreen beauty, fragrance and durability, pointing us back to the Creator and His purpose. Numerous verses speak to how GOD designed His first stationary tabernacle – Solomon’s Temple and how these evergreens were to adorn His Sanctuary.

    No matter if the subject is about a tree or food, GOD’s word is clear, do nothing in vain concede and do nothing that may cause a child of His to stumble. Let us use all of GOD’s creation to worship Him.

    • “GOD’S perspective” has always been the interpretation of man and coincides with the perspective of the interpreter. There are Christians who interpret these verses to prohibit the display of Christmas trees, and they believe prohibiting Christmas trees is the perspective of GOD. Those Christians of history who owned slaves, tortured and killed Giordano Bruno (http://space.about.com/cs/astronomyhistory/a/giordanobruno.htm), banned the books of Galileo and Copernicus, killed countless Jews in a variety of pogroms, performed a complete genocide of the Cathars, etc, all believed they had “GOD’s perspective”, just as you do.

      I am not implying that you are as evil as those mentioned above. Your version of Christianity probably has a good deal of humanism in it thanks to the Enlightenment.

  26. http://godisimaginary.com/

  27. The scripture is specifically speaking to the custom/s being a “Delusion” which means a belief that is not true, would it matter if someone brought a rock into their house and adorned it? There is no scripture directly against such a practice as adorning a rock.

    • If the meaning is so clear, why do millions of Christians have a completely different understanding of these verses?

      • The Bible is amazing, who other than Jesus Christ has such opposition from the world and outright attacks from Satan?

        Muhammad, Joesph Smith and others like them are some of the false prophets our Lord told us would come. Each was touched by an evil spirit, each took other men’s wives and had inappropriate relationships. Each denies the divinity of Christ.

        We don’t see such issues in other religions, such as Buddhism, as they have no truth or bearing on human salvation. Look at all the false preachers, priest who commit terrible acts, outright frauds who pretend to represent the Lord Jesus.

        The tradition of Santa Claus, a relatively new tradition, is absolute blasphemy, as this specific lie breaks the first commandment, as does any other religion who places a man before God.

        The debate as to a Christmas tree is worthy of consideration, and if someone believes it is a stumbling block they should always side on caution and reverence.

        Personally I believe anything can be an Idol, for even a word such as Jesus has no power, and nether does a tree.

        All that has power is God and Christ and the Spirit, and even if we were all born sightless, never seeing the written word, and deaf, never knowing spoken language, that would never change the truth, that God is life and we are dead in the flesh without our Lord.

      • What do you think alot of idols were made of, rock and other matter that cant do a thing for you. try telling that rock to bring you supper, Yah has brought many suppers in the form of creational food, animals and fruit and vegetables, if you want to play with words , Why dont you try scrabble , its safer for you. Dont provoke your maker

      • Praying to Yahweh does not get you food. Farmers grow crops, ranchers raise animals, lots of people are involved in processing and delivering the food, and finally someone prepares it. If god is providing the food, why does he provide an abundance of it the wealthy (regardless of their religion) while thousands of innocent children (and adults) die of hunger each day (regardless of their religion).
        If you want to thank Jesus, thank all the migrant farm workers named Jesus who are involved in the food production process (as well as all others not named Jesus).

    • The scripture says do not worship God the way the heathens do. Do not learn their ways.. because they are counterfit piftures.

      Changing the argument to a rock does not change what the bible says about the ways of the heathen.

      • I agree worshiping a rock is also a fools errand.

        “Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree: And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place.”

        Followed any of this scripture from Deuteronomy 12 lately?

        ” And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath”

        “Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.”

        Is this contradiction in the word of God?

      • The bible is in contradiction with the first amendment of the US Constitution (religious freedom).

      • Agree completely, the original intent of the first amendment is dead. The founders never envisioned godless practices such as witchcraft deemed “worthy” of consecration by our government.

      • Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting “Jesus Christ,” so that it would read “A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;” the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
        -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

        I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshiped by many who think themselves Christians.
        -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789 (Richard Price had written to TJ on Oct. 26. about the harm done by religion and wrote “Would not Society be better without Such religions? Is Atheism less pernicious than Demonism?”)

      • Very interesting, I will have to investigate your assertion further. I know Jefferson was a Universalist, from some readings I had done previously.

        I also know some of his quotes have been truncated and used in a less than ingenuous manner in the past, usually due to limited research or having been gleaned from websites with an anti Christian agenda.
        .

      • Jefferson could be considered a Deist or Universalist. He did question the very existence of god. I have been to the Smithsonian and have seen the Jefferson Bible, in which he cut out all the sections he believed were myth. There was not much left.

        My response was regarding your assertion that our founding fathers would not have “consecrated” witchcraft. The Salem Witch Trials had occurred relatively recently before our country was formed. 20 innocent people were murdered in the name of Christianity by Christian leaders. This (and many other events/wars/pogroms/inquisitions prior) had a huge influence on why our founding fathers voted not to include Jesus, Christ, etc, in the constitution. Most of our founding fathers chose to separate government from religion and all permitted men to have a free conscious to believe what they wanted. Our constitution does not “consecrate” witchcraft, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism or any other religion or non-religion.

      • Yes, I have seen Jefferson’s version of the Bible, yet not the original, in person. I might have to look into this further. I am not sure what this dialog has to do with the original discussion or my question, although it is interesting.

  28. We have been born in a time, and now reside in a moment where being a believer in the Lord Jesus, the Word of God, could cost us dearly.

    I have thought in earnest about the founding of our country, and if it was indeed proper and right to do so.

    We could very well be making the decision soon as whether or not we will be going gently into that good night.

  29. Holiness churches prohibit Christmas, easter, Halloween and so forth. They also observe the sabbath day on Saturday and not on Sunday. Always read your bible yourself, don’t always depend on what your preacher tells you.

  30. “…Old Testament passage, so obviously not about Christmas Trees…”
    Not so obvious. Christmas was around a long time before the supposed “birth of Christ”, but it was celebrated as “Satunalia”. When Romans created Christianty to control the masses with the opiate of a new religion, they wanted as smooth of a conversion as possible, so they converted pagan holidays into “Christian” ones. Ever wonder what eggs, baby rabbits and chicks have to do with Jesus? Absolutely nothing, other than Easter, which was a spring fertility celebration before Romans chose it for another Christian holiday, (to celebrate something that never actually happened).

    So people taking trees into their homes in a (pagan) celebration and decorating them is most likely another thing that just went with the territory of putting your false religion on top of another’s customs. What do Santa Claus, reindeer, “Christmas” trees and Jesus have in common. Again, absolutely nothing.
    The human beings who wrote the “Bible” were threatened by pagan practices and wanted to keep themselves separate by not taking part in the pagan rituals and beliefs such as the bringing in and adorning of trees, so they wrote it down and told everyone it was “God’s Will” that no trees be brought in houses and decorated. Also in the same book, mortal human men wrote rules and passed them off as “The Will of God” such as death to homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13), no shaving the sides of your beard, death to all sorts of offenders and other rules concerning diet and how to live. Basically, one group of MORTALS devising a way to control the actions of other mortals. All well and good a couple thousand years ago, but really in this modern day it’s super ridiculous that it is so persistent and people actually take it seriously.

    • There is nothing “enlightening” in regards to your comment, all of which is common knowledge. December 25 is the date that Christians decided to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, unless one would happen to be Eastern Orthodox or Russian Orthodox who use the Julian calendar rather than the Gregorian Calendar. Would I be correct in assuming you would still have issue with the date of Christmas, or Christ’s Mass, being on January 7th?

      The Pagan traditions were actually forms of worship, the “tree” was decked in silver and gold in order to appease the spirits that dwelt within them. Christians do not worship trees. The Roman holiday was called, “Saturnalia” not “Satunalia”, the key or root being Saturn, a Roman deity, the date of this Worship was December 17th and based on the Julian Calendar when converted to the Gregorian Calendar the date would be December 30th.

      What shouldn’t be taken seriously are poorly constructed and haphazardly researched comments on the internet.


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